MS: Yeah. Yeah, it was an trade that was actually in transformation, and there have been some leaders in that house who have been utilizing math and analytics to drive personalization and advertising in a means that organizations hadn’t traditionally needed to, and it was a interval of actual progress. And for me and that staff, as a result of we have been so small, everybody was carrying many hats. And I do not assume there have been many different locations within the nation the place you would be answerable for a bank card acquisition and likewise serving to to set the adjudication coverage and the road task coverage and the earnings verification coverage. Often, these duties are fairly separated. So, it was a extremely attention-grabbing place to be, and it actually kinda set me on a path for the following 10 years working in product improvement, in one-to-one advertising, in product administration, in monetary providers. And sort of all through it, there was at all times this thread as a result of, you already know, it was the following chapter in playing cards of loyalty.
So, you already know, I had the chance at Canada Belief to work on plenty of new co-branded loyalty merchandise, was doing loyalty co-brand design after I moved over to Citibank for a number of years, after which in the end, moved to PC Monetary once they have been nonetheless actually of their progress mode, and once more, discovered myself on this extraordinary staff of individuals, small, actually dedicated, captivated with what they have been doing, the sensation such as you have been altering the world via creating one thing essentially new on this place the place we have been simply on a rocket ship, simply driving unimaginable progress and disrupting the trade.
SS: So, plenty of studying and an incredible basis in data-driven advertising is absolutely what you have been studying on the time, constructing upon?
MS: Yeah, completely, and that led me into transferring from bank cards into Carlson Advertising and marketing, which was then later acquired by AIMIA, you already know, gave me a chance to broaden into sort of different areas of consumer-focused advertising. So, doing an incredible quantity of product improvement with many of the main banks throughout the nation, getting publicity to card-linked loyalty via work that Aimia was doing in that house, after which additionally, you already know, fairly curiously, a chance to work internationally as nicely, constructing out product ideas in Mexico with Membership Premier, launching a product in Thailand with Thanachart Financial institution. So, like, actually attention-grabbing work and actually attention-grabbing alternatives in plenty of completely different fields.
SS: So, you do not miss not constructing rocket ships?
MS: Nicely, I feel we have been constructing one for the final variety of years, and, you already know…
SS: True.
MS: …its velocity has been accelerating as we have been constructing. (10.09)
SS: Nicely, we’re gonna clearly get into that dialog fairly deeply immediately. I do wanna return to your AIMIA expertise, although, since you have been at AIMIA simply previous to becoming a member of Scene. Now it is an funding holding firm of all issues. And I feel you left there earlier than Canada determined it needed to reclaim Aeroplan. Did you kinda see the writing on the wall at that time that that was an inevitability that Aeroplan would come again and repatriate this system?
MS: By the point I left, that wasn’t inevitable, however one may see that there have been plenty of causes that will make sense, for Air Canada, for that partnership. You understand, the airline was actually trying on the program and, you already know, on the lookout for ways in which they may higher have interaction straight with their prospects. And, you already know, the construction that they’d with Aeroplan operated by AIMIA created plenty of limitations round their skill to maximise the worth that they have been getting from this system, to maximise the pliability within the economics, and a bunch of different challenges, you already know, sort of across the relationship as nicely. So, when it was lastly introduced that that was the result, it felt like the precise factor to do. In some ways, it was the tip of an period with AIMIA as a result of that was actually the centerpiece of the AIMIA progress story as they went from being a one-program enterprise to a world skilled in buyer loyalty. So, it felt very very similar to the tip of an period, however, you already know, from a… strictly, from an Aeroplan perspective and an Air Canada perspective, it felt like one of the best end result for the organizations and likewise for his or her members.
SS: After all. Now, you went to hitch Scene, I am gonna name it 1.0, as Managing Director, and on the time, it was actually, you already know, a method to gather factors by going to motion pictures and shopping for popcorn. At what level did it begin to shift in an evolution towards, I feel you describe it immediately as a broader way of life program, if I’ll, an leisure program certainly? You have been there, what, six years? The place alongside this path did that realization happen that you just actually wanted to transcend, lengthen the quantity of earn and burn alternatives? At what level did that happen to the group strategically?
MS: Yeah. So, that was actually a part of the dialog after I joined in 2015. So, after I arrived on the enterprise, you already know, it was already a well-loved program. It had expanded far past what its founders had anticipated. And for many who aren’t accustomed to it, like, Scene was created as a three way partnership between Cineplex and Scotiabank, and it was actually a bringing collectively of experience from each of these organizations to create one thing actually essentially new. Cineplex was trying to, you already know, have extra info on who their prospects have been and discover methods of studying about their friends and driving conduct, as Scotiabank in 2006 was ready the place they have been on the lookout for new alternatives for progress and, you already know, new alternatives to draw a youthful demographic.
So, once they began this system in 2007, I feel, you already know, everybody knew that this was one thing actually new available in the market. It was a brand new construction in loyalty that did not exist wherever else, nevertheless it additionally did not exist wherever else in the identical means. And, you already know, because it took off and grew from, you already know, 2007 via to after I arrived in 2015, everybody was thrilled with the way it had expanded. You understand, by the point I arrived, it was already, you already know, nicely thought to be a program, despite the fact that it was fairly area of interest. However it was in 38% of households throughout the nation. So it had already sort of gotten a extremely stable foothold. However even after I was interviewing with Cineplex, you already know, there was a recognition that it had grown rapidly and it was very more likely to have momentum that was gonna enable it to proceed to develop, however the problem was going to be how do you carry ahead and amplify that momentum, and the way do you’re taking it to the following stage? And there was a recognition that one thing was going to must shift with the intention to, you already know, give it that further increase. And there have been a number of issues that occurred.
You understand, I might say for me, after I arrived, you already know, there have been plenty of issues that we wanted to construct. There was plenty of sort of structure that wanted to get constructed round advertising and automation and constructing intelligence into our analytics. However we additionally acknowledged we wanted to do some work round how we have been presenting ourselves to the market. You understand, there have been some nascent partnerships that have been already in place that they sort of simply…they felt awkward. You understand, it was, like, do one exercise to get a free film ticket. It was exhausting to sort of make the story make sense. And that led us to do some actually profound branding work on the enterprise and spend a while actually understanding what this system’s position was within the lives of its members.
And as we began speaking to our members round, you already know, how they have been utilizing Scene, you already know, for a lot of, it was, you already know, “Get a free film ticket,” however we additionally acquired all these tales from our members round actually highly effective ways in which it was serving to them of their lives. Like, we had, you already know, individuals who advised us that, you already know, this system was how they went on the primary date with the individual they later married. We had grandparents who advised us that this was the best way they may have a dinner out each month with their grandkids. You understand, we had households of, nicely, that is the one means they may afford to do a number of the issues that they needed to do of their lives. And the extra we dug into it, the extra it turned clear that the rationale that Scene had such a powerful member attachment was about greater than the reward, it was about greater than the transaction, it was that we have been performing as an instigator to encourage individuals to make plans to spend time with their family and friends.
And as soon as we kinda hooked into that perception concerning the position that this system truly performed in individuals’s lives, it allowed us to essentially rebrand and reposition this system. So, we shifted it from being all about motion pictures in 2015 to changing into an leisure program, all about encouraging togetherness by 2016. And that was sort of the spark that ignited issues for the following few years and helped us to develop our partnerships in eating, it allowed us to companion with the NBA, it allowed us to construct out a music model, it allowed us to essentially take this system into a spot the place we may credibly be greater than we had been earlier than. And that allowed us…you already know, by late 2019, you already know, we had gone previous 10 million members, and at that time, we have been in 53% of homes throughout the nation. So, actually significant progress out of sort of this one key perception into our members and the position that we performed. (17.23)
SS: That is fascinating. So, the spark was this aha second the place you have a look at the rationale individuals are responding emotionally to this system primarily based on the truth that it facilitated, if you’ll, nearer household connections and so forth. Is that mainly what the stimulus was?
MS: That is precisely proper. And, you already know, I really feel prefer it was not solely vital for this system in permitting us to do extra and to companion with extra organizations, it actually gave the staff a way of profound which means, proper, about what we have been doing. It sort of ignited the creativeness with our advertising groups and with our businesses to, you already know, construct out some actually compelling methods of bringing this system to the market. And fairly importantly, via COVID, as a result of we had shifted to a place of encouraging togetherness because the core objective of this system, you already know, when film theaters have been closed and eating places have been closed, we nonetheless had this significant message that we may talk on this platform round, you already know, higher collectively even after we’re aside that was equally significant all over the pandemic because it had been earlier than, and allowed us to sort of, you already know, not solely to outlive via the pandemic however to keep up a stage of engagement and relevance all over, that I do not assume would’ve been attainable if we had sort of stayed with the established order.
SS: Yeah, fascinating. Really, actually attention-grabbing, as a result of the knock on, in fact, most factors packages is that they’re very transactional in nature and do not actually have an effect on individuals’s emotional attachment to the model, whereas what you are saying is, actually, there was an emotional attachment to the model, and that carried us via the interval when theaters and eating places have been being emptied out. So, that is fascinating. Now, you have relaunched…not relaunched, you have introduced an extension of this system – Scene 2.0, can I name it? You have set down, you already know, a extra bold path, if I’ll say, to increase the earn and burn alternatives. Are you able to kind of take me via your considering across the varied strategic partnerships that you have established? And positively, you have now moved means past the vary of purely leisure, Sobeys, in fact, and Expedia, and Rakuten, and so forth. Are you able to simply take me via your considering round that?
MS: Yeah, completely. And it is a story that has chapters to it, and, you already know, like most tales, you’ll be able to’t have one chapter with out the one earlier than. And, you already know, the latest manifestation is that we have expanded into grocery and, you already know, we are going to quickly be increasing into house enchancment with Residence {Hardware} coming into this system subsequent summer time. However it’s a must to sort of take a step backwards to see how this might’ve made sense and are available collectively. You understand, I feel the primary chapter was, you already know, broadening our price proposition and increasing the scope of the membership and, you already know, constructing out the capabilities and credibility as a program that we had sort of up till 2019. However Chapter 2 was actually to the credit score of Scotiabank.
So, Scotia, you already know, previous to this summer time, was a 50% proprietor of Scene. We have now welcomed Empire as a one-third proprietor. So the three house owners every have a 3rd. However in 2019, Scotia was taking a look at not solely their possession in Scene but in addition at their very own proprietary program, Scotia Rewards, and making an attempt to, you already know, lay out the trail that will enable them to be extra profitable available in the market and that will enable them to be best within the face of some fairly robust rivals. If you happen to look throughout, you already know, RBC and TD and others, you already know, these are organizations that have gotten, you already know, very well-developed engagement methods and loyalty methods. And Scotia, you already know, made the strategic choice that it was going to be higher in the long term for his or her group by going all in on Scene. And so, what we ended up doing on the finish of final yr was merge the 2 packages collectively, and that is what allowed us to launch Scene+.
And so, you already know, the Scotia Rewards program and its members successfully have been absorbed into Scene and launching Scene+, and that was actually sort of the primary main growth late final yr when, you already know, Scene moved from being leisure to changing into a broader way of life program with the addition of a relationship with Expedia, For Journey, we expanded our e-commerce relationship with Rakuten, we added extra methods to earn and redeem factors with a collection of partnerships, and carved out actually a brand new territory for us from a model perspective and constructed an enormous quantity of incremental worth for our members. (22.18)
SS: Is the positioning nonetheless round togetherness, or has that needed to evolve on account of this?
MS: Yeah, it is needed to evolve. We now have a variety of rewards, and we’ve got much more pleasure that has been coming to market, with the addition of latest companions over the previous couple of months and going ahead. So, you already know, we have centered principally at this time limit on trying ahead to what’s subsequent, round, you already know, bringing the story of transformation and evolution to the desk, however we’re making an attempt to do it in such a means that we do not lose plenty of that fairness that we have constructed within the model place. You understand, as we have expanded this system, there’s a lot of what we’re doing that is nonetheless about doing the issues that you just love with the individuals that you just love, and, you already know, there’s a component of that that sort of cuts via all the ways in which we carry this system to market, at the same time as we have modified sort of the first main message.
SS: You have got Scotiabank, you’ve Empire, you clearly have Cineplex. At some stage, is it robust to get strategic alignment across the objectives of this system, or has that been, you already know, pretty easy for you?
MS: So, we welcomed Empire as a one-third proprietor in the previous couple of months, however main as much as that course of, there’s been plenty of work with the Empire management staff and with our board of administrators round everybody’s aspirations for this system. And, you already know, I might say what’s been fantastic is how dedicated everyone seems to be to the identical issues. Everybody’s all in favour of constructing a program that they are often happy with. Everybody’s all in favour of constructing a program that builds actual worth for his or her prospects and their friends. Everyone seems to be absolutely dedicated to creating one thing that permits them to unlock the facility of insights throughout this ecosystem that we’re constructing. And so, at the same time as there will probably be…in any given day, there may very well be micro parts the place we have to kinda kind out the relative precedence, I might say on the macro scale, that we have great alignment. And it was actually vital sort of early…within the early days of constructing out this technique to be sure that we clearly understood the strategic priorities of every group independently, after which that we may carry them collectively and be sure that we may carry them collectively in such a means that the Scene staff would have one job, and we may have one North Star that we may give attention to as we have been constructing one thing better collectively.
SS: I do wanna simply ask you a few questions. One is, Sobeys clearly ditched its partnership with AIR MILES, joined up with you guys. Did Sobeys see this as a method to acquire benefit towards what’s a colossal Optimum machine in a method to scale its loyalty program in a means it could not have carried out by itself?
MS: Nicely, I might hate to reply for Sobeys, and I feel the reply needs to be greatest delivered by one of many leaders at Sobeys round how they got here to that call. So, I can provide you my view on it for what it is price. You understand, I articulated sort of the second chapter across the choice that Scotiabank made to go all in on Scene as a result of I feel it was actually vital to the story with Sobeys. You understand, I feel it is truthful to say that if Scene had been the Scene that it was in 2015, you already know, Scotia wouldn’t have made that call to go all in on that program because it stood at the moment, and nor would Sobeys.
Scotia decided to go all in with Scene because it was and because it may turn into within the final yr, and equally, I feel Sobeys noticed the dedication from Cineplex and Scotia to construct one thing nice collectively. They noticed a stage of momentum in this system and a stage of engagement with the model that was actually robust. We additionally had a extremely robust dedication as a corporation to creating worth for our house owners and our companions, which, like, goes proper to this manner that the group itself is structured, which we will spend a little bit of time on. However, you already know, that was a significant a part of the dialogue, that, you already know, Scene as a corporation exists to create worth for its members, its house owners, and its companions. You understand, I feel that mixture of issues actually was an interesting image for Sobeys.
However I additionally do not assume it needs to be understated that it is a massive choice. You understand, that is, you already know, a really strategic transfer by a really massive and highly effective group in a extremely aggressive market. All of us at Scene are, you already know, humbled by the truth that they’ve made this choice, however we additionally keenly really feel the accountability that it creates, you already know, for all three house owners. We have got, Sobeys, it is in a extremely aggressive market, Scotia in a extremely aggressive market, Cineplex is popping out of COVID and making an attempt to be sure that their enterprise goes to thrive going ahead. You understand, whereas we do not sort of personal all of these obligations, we’ve got a component to play, and I actually really feel that it is vital that we, you already know, set ourselves up nicely to allow their success. (28.03)
SS: Nicely, therefore my query earlier about strategic priorities. Rakuten is a multi-retailer cashback program, enormous. It is an attention-grabbing partnership there. I imply, in some methods you’ll be able to nearly think about them a sort of oblique competitor. What was your considering doing a partnership with these guys?
MS: You understand, we felt it was a extremely vital partnership to assist us, you already know, broaden the attraction of this system, and likewise to usher in an e-commerce play to Scene that allowed individuals to have extra alternatives to interact in this system and extra alternatives to search out worth within the forex. And it was a dialog that, you already know, turned significantly acute via COVID when, you already know, there have been few different alternatives for individuals to interact as meaningfully, however strategically, we felt it simply made plenty of sense. You understand, as a corporation, Rakuten has carried out an exemplary job of constructing, you already know, robust relationships with their prospects. You understand, the suggestions that they get from their prospects is overwhelmingly optimistic, persistently, and we felt like we had plenty of alignment between our manufacturers in the best way that we have been coming to market, and plenty of alignment within the goals we have been making an attempt to pursue. So, it actually did really feel like a win-win in hanging a partnership with them.
SS: Let’s speak about coalition packages typically.
MS: Certain.
SS: They’ve floundered just about all over the place on the planet. Like within the U.S., it is, you already know, for probably the most half they haven’t gained any traction in any respect. There are examples in Brazil and elsewhere, sure, however for probably the most half, Canada’s been one of many exceptions. Are Canadians simply completely different of their perspective towards level packages? Are they extra level professionals? Or is it our peculiar geography that accounts for this affinity for coalition packages, the truth that we’ve got nationwide manufacturers in nearly all the key classes? How do you clarify the success of coalition packages on this nation?
MS: I imply, you already know, I feel what we have seen globally as Canadians are hyper-engaged in loyalty. You understand, we have got, you already know, not solely extra packages per individual than many nations on the planet however extra engaged participation per individual than many nations on the planet. And, you already know, I feel we have seen, you already know, actual willingness to discover a partnership throughout organizations in several classes. And, you already know, maybe that is one of many key variations, is, you already know, we have seen organizations that haven’t solely been modern of their strategy to the market and in constructing these partnership methods, however then receptivity to enjoying a part of one thing larger as an alternative of going it alone amongst leaders.
As I have been in dialog with leaders in several organizations we partnered with, or which were in conversations with us to companion, I’ve the identical dialog in several flavors usually, and I are inclined to have a dialogue with loyalty leaders and with advertising leaders in corporations the place they have a look at a coalition technique they usually acknowledge that there are advantages, that there is instantaneous scale, that there is model consciousness, that there is alternative to faucet into community results, that there is probably a chance to kinda shift model choice from their subsequent nearest competitor to themselves. However equally, we have heard organizations say, nicely, I am aware of a number of the issues that becoming a member of a coalition may additionally…the place it may very well be a disadvantage, the place I may have much less management or much less entry to info or knowledge, or the place it is tougher for me to construct scale in my very own advertising. And positively, for Scene+, like, that has been a elementary a part of our technique, going into a few of these partnership discussions. I feel it is why we have been profitable at crafting some actually profitable and long-term relationships.
You understand, we have very intentionally gone into these conversations with a view to maximizing the info that we will make accessible to our companions, to maximizing the entry to advertising, to serving to our companions construct their very own skill to market to their prospects, you already know, in an effort to attempt to break compromises that they might in any other case face. So, I feel, as a market, we have had a willingness to take part, however I additionally assume that there is a subsequent horizon in these loyalty ecosystems that can enable individuals to essentially be extra profitable by becoming a member of a few of these evolving companies. (32.48)
SS: The financial mannequin is attention-grabbing right here, too. You understand, definitely, AIR MILES made some huge cash on breakage after which, I feel, counted on it. In your case, although, it is a bit completely different since you’re truly making an attempt…as a tripartite partnership, truly making an attempt to attain monetary objectives that align with these three organizations versus working as an impartial unit making an attempt to maximise your backside line. Is there a trade-off right here, or are you very a lot pushed by your personal set of enterprise metrics in your group?
MS: Yeah, our construction, for my part, has been a key a part of our success. We shouldn’t have an out of doors shareholder extracting worth from the ecosystem. And so, you already know, as we have constructed our enterprise, it has completely been about creating worth for our members, about creating worth for our house owners and for our companions. You understand, we’ve not needed to make the alternatives that another organizations have needed to both, you already know, scale back the dividend to a member or scale back the worth of a reward, or to deliberately drive-up breakage. You understand, we take fairly the alternative strategy. We’re fairly happy with having very low breakage charges and of delivering actually excessive worth to our prospects available in the market. Personally, I feel that that is a key to long-term success, that, you already know, as an ecosystem, we’re constructed essentially to create worth levers for the house owners and companions in play.
You understand, we have lengthy thought of ourselves to be extra of a buyer engagement platform than a loyalty program, per se. A loyalty program, like, in fact, that is what we do, proper? Like, we challenge factors, we redeem factors, however, you already know, on the finish of the day, what we’re making an attempt to do is facilitate deeper relationships between our members and our house owners and companions. And, you already know, the easiest way we will do that’s to maximise the worth change between the 2 and to scale back friction within the center.
SS: So, you’ve the direct competitors with clearly coalition packages, and many others., however there’s additionally a progress in proprietary packages. There is a recognition, I feel, with first-party knowledge now, clearly, whether or not you are a bundle items firm or a retailer, within the worth of the info, and that is been, I feel, the massive change, personally, I’ve seen within the arc of my profession is the popularity, the significance of knowledge, actually, and the way that may form a relationship. Is there a risk there coming from retailers, for instance, who wanna say, “Now I feel I can do that by myself now”? You understand, we gave the instance Sobeys earlier not going that route, however you then get have a look at Loblaws and, in fact, of their program has turn into a Goliath within the trade. How do you’re feeling about that potential for mainly cannibalization by proprietary packages?
MS: You understand, I feel in our case, you already know, what we’re making an attempt to do is maximize the worth of the knowledge that’s accessible, and this has been a fairly vital strategic thrust for us. Once I return to 2018 and the best way we have been architected on the time, we had three entities within the combine, we had, you already know, Scotiabank, and Cineplex, and Scene, and three variations of the database, other ways of calculating factors and recognizing factors and incomplete views of shoppers in all three organizations. And over the previous couple of years, we have made a really deliberate technique of bringing that info collectively in order that we may create a way more holistic and invaluable view of a member’s conduct and their participation in this system, that encompasses, you already know, how they work together with Scene in its many kinds between the grocery purchases and nights out with the household and banking conduct and so forth. And that mixture of sort of on-us proprietary info mixed with insights which you could get from all the off-us knowledge that is Scene can amalgamate, I feel creates…I imply, it isn’t an awesome benefit relative to a proprietary-only program, however we definitely do craft a really compelling image of, you already know, who a buyer is and, you already know, what worth they may carry to a corporation.
SS: I am gonna come again to the entire perception query momentarily. I simply wanna get you to attract an image for me, although, of that expertise backroom. At present, is Bond Loyalty managing that loyalty platform for you, or are you doing that your self? How does that work precisely?
MS: Yeah, Bond has been a companion with Scene since 2007 since launch, they usually’ve been elementary to plenty of our expertise. They usually work with us to carry collectively plenty of our knowledge and to be sure that we’re well-positioned to construct these insights. You understand, over time, in fact, we have additionally constructed, you already know, plenty of our personal analytics bench power and knowledge engineering and analytics. So, it is not sort of the, you already know, absolutely outsourced mannequin that it as soon as was, however they’re nonetheless essential within the administration of the enterprise. (38.17)
SS: At this level, largely, the earn and burn alternatives are, as I mentioned, transactional in nature, it is mainly reductions of some kind or one other, rewards. Are you trying in some unspecified time in the future down the street of taking a look at different types of rewards? I am considering experiential rewards for instance the place you are catering to particular segments of your base. You understand, do you shift away from transactions as being the pure type of reward, or would you think about down the street one thing else as an add-on or extension of these rewards? What’s your considering there?
MS: Yeah. Nicely, I do not wanna give away an excessive amount of about the place our heads are going on this house, however I’d say that, you already know, as a corporation, we’re fairly uniquely positioned, you already know, not solely in our construction, but in addition with the belongings we will carry to the desk. If you concentrate on the presence of Cineplex as an proprietor of this system and the entry to experiences and “Cash cannot purchase alternatives” that they bring about to the desk, mixed with recipe, mixed with the varieties of experiences that you would manufacture with Sobeys and with a few of our different companions available in the market, there is a world of alternative on the market for us to take a a lot stronger place. You understand, I feel it is price noting, you already know, the Scene+ as a program, we’re not but a yr outdated. We’re nonetheless very a lot in launch. We’re nonetheless very a lot in transformation mode. There’s much more constructing to come back.
SS: Yeah, I’d think about. And let’s return to the query of analytics. We began the dialog immediately round that basis that you just developed very early on with Canada Belief. How are you structured to help your necessities there when it comes to not simply merely doing the transaction evaluation mandatory, that helps a program of this type, however going past that to develop these sorts of insights that result in innovation and transformation? How are you set as much as help that?
MS: Yeah, I imply, we’re very a lot in construct mode proper now, and, you already know, the sorts of issues that you just’re constructing and taking a look at when you find yourself in a sort of business-as-usual mode are very completely different than if you’re in the midst of both a pandemic, the restoration from a pandemic, or within the midst of a change. You understand, during the last two years, we have been considerably investing in our analytics staff, in our engineering staff, in our analytics capabilities, and in constructing out, you already know, new dashboards and new reporting and so forth in order that we will meet the wants of the expanded program. Now that we’re enjoying such a major position for the financial institution and such a major position for Sobeys, along with the position that we have performed traditionally for Cineplex, you actually have to start out creating net-new analytics capabilities that create completely different types of perception.
In the meanwhile, you already know, there is a want for us to give attention to the issues which can be vital via transformation, you already know, and as I say, these are fairly completely different than enterprise as normal. Like, enterprise as normal, you could be very centered on total program metrics, engagement in this system, satisfaction, NPS, the standard progress metrics. While you’re popping out of a pandemic, you already know, it’s a must to shift your focus very strongly to reactivation, to making sure that you just’re being related in your communications primarily based on the circumstances locally, ensuring that we’re constructing out satisfaction with the rewards, and being actually clearly centered on the questions like, you already know, is this system going to make you extra more likely to proceed to do enterprise with the manufacturers it is related to? You understand, the pandemic wasn’t interruption, and we’re making an attempt to carry individuals again to a special place than they have been in beforehand.
However, you already know, now that we’re within the midst of this transformation, like, we… As I say, this program shouldn’t be but a yr outdated, Scene+, and Sobeys has been a part of this system since August the eleventh in Atlantic, since September twenty second within the West. We have been in market in Ontario for a month, and we’re not but launched in Quebec. So, you already know, that is nonetheless very new, and so, you already know, the main target has to alter accordingly. Like, you already know, we wanna be sure that our members are conscious of the advantages, that they perceive this system, that they are having a clear and easy enrollment expertise, making an attempt to trace issues like how lengthy does it take earlier than your first transaction with this system, whether or not that is an earn or a burn, you already know, are you proud of customer support? Are you migrating throughout the ecosystem so you are not simply collaborating in a single place? Are you happier now than you have been earlier than, both with the outdated Scene program or with this system that Sobeys was in earlier than? You understand, these are the stuff you’ve gotta measure very intently at this level in our transformation, and, you already know, in a number of months, we’ll be in a really completely different place once more, and, you already know, get very centered on another metrics to ensure we’re maximizing worth. (43.38)
SS: I wanna speak about program design a bit bit, after which I am gonna transfer into a number of extra unique prospects, however simply to probe your considering. However simply when it comes to this system, and forgive me if it is a mischaracterization, however you sort of have a one-size-fits-all program design proper now, proper? You understand, it treats all people mainly as one massive, massive viewers. A pure evolution right here is to be taking a look at completely different segments inside your base, significantly with the wealthy quantity of knowledge that you just’re describing from completely different classes, oh my God, the probabilities are limitless. Once more, is that one thing, appreciating, actually, you have not left this orbit but, of really transferring in some unspecified time in the future towards tailoring the advantages, the reward alternatives, even the assemble, to completely different area of interest segments throughout the base? Is that a part of your imaginative and prescient? Let me ask it that means.
MS: So, and the reply is emphatically, sure, however I additionally assume it is actually vital for us to remain centered on one of many issues that has made Scene robust over time. You understand, we’ve got had nearly a manic give attention to simplicity, and that is been actually vital for us during the last 15 years to be sure that this system was straightforward to know, that when somebody indicators up, they don’t seem to be making an attempt to, you already know, comb via phrases and situations and reward grids and making an attempt to determine like what they might get by making the choice to enroll. So, you already know, it is critically vital to us that this system be comprehensible, that or not it’s clear, that the worth prop be understood in seconds. You understand, we wish it to be straightforward to hitch, we wish it to be straightforward to create worth, we wish it to be straightforward to take part, and so there’s been an incredible quantity of focus as we have gone via, you already know, the design of the present state on making an attempt to attain that. And I might say we’re not all the best way carried out. We have got some issues nonetheless that we wish to, you already know, make even less complicated and much more constant throughout the board, however I feel, you already know, we’re pointed in the precise course.
The subsequent piece is ensuring that individuals perceive this system because it exists and driving up that consciousness of the breadth of this system and ensuring that individuals perceive how they’ll greatest use this system, and concurrently, it is actually driving that personalization. And so, you already know, in reply to your query, whereas it could seem like it is one dimension suits all, there is a great quantity of labor underway within the completely different components of this ecosystem between the financial institution and Sobeys and Cineplex and ourselves and our companions to be sure that what we’re delivering are extremely customized, extremely related items of content material and provides and worth that actually converse to a person and their wants. And that won’t present itself sort of on the mass stage, however it’ll positively present itself on the particular person stage.
SS: Yeah, I can see clearly the potential individualization of provides. Given the complexity, although, is that one thing that will be AI-driven, you already know, or definitely requires some refined analytics?
MS: Yeah, it definitely requires some refined analytics and a stage of orchestration to be sure that we’re being customer-centric in our supply. And, you already know, as every a part of this ecosystem, you already know, like, absolutely manifests itself, we’re very centered on making an attempt to be sure that we’re delivering the precise message to the precise individual. You understand, there’s at all times going to be a requirement to speak via all the channels that exceeds a member’s persistence to soak up the message, and so we’re simply making an attempt to be sure that we’re very centered on kinda tailoring that content material and with the ability to sort of concurrently stability, you already know, the size of the necessity to talk and the complexity of the communications with a member’s curiosity in receiving the message. (47.58)
SS: I am gonna lay on some technical phrases within the time remaining right here and get your response to a few of this. I notice that, once more, you are constructing a bridge right here, you are not throughout the river but, simply to combine up metaphors. Gamification, that seems to be a little bit of a development round reward packages to create engagement, to return to your phrase earlier; blockchain as a supply mechanism for forex, and, you already know, I am gonna say the phrase, metaverse, given AIR MILES’s announcement of their Web3 and metaverse partnerships, which appears to be a little bit of a Hail Mary cross. Your views on every of these issues as a part of a loyalty program.
MS: Yeah, I imply, I feel, you already know, there are going to be waves of evolution on this house to make sure over the following few minutes. It kinda began starting on gamification. Gamification has been a fairly central a part of our dialog for plenty of years, and one of many fashions is the Octalysis mannequin that’s broadly utilized in plenty of digital properties and, like, in precise video games round mechanics that drive gamification. As we have advanced our digital channels over time, we have made nice use of a number of the parts of gamification which can be a part of that mannequin, round recognizing early progress in direction of the purpose, round purpose setting, round kinda recognition of progress, and there is a complete bunch of different levers. You understand, within the launch of Scene+, we rebuilt every thing, you already know, our core expertise stack, our knowledge surroundings, our app, our web site, was all constructed over once more. And so there’s plenty of these parts that, you already know, exist inside our channels immediately, however extra that we have to construct once more as we evolve a few of these properties going ahead. These are highly effective instruments.
You understand, we have seen many organizations on this house be very profitable at leveraging recreation mechanics to drive behaviors. I feel Starbucks Rewards is, you already know, one of many best-in-class examples of that. You understand, we have blatantly stolen from a few of their considering through the years and leveraged a number of the instruments that they’ve deployed, and you’ll make sure that we’ll be bringing extra of that to market.
SS: I guess.
MS: Yeah, and a number of the different items.
SS: Blockchain for instance, have you ever checked out that?
MS: Yeah, we have definitely checked out it, and, you already know, I feel that there is one of many items that we’re all a bit bit inquisitive about round sort of Blockchain and Web3 is, you already know, what Starbucks is gonna be doing with the Odyssey Program that they’ve introduced, and the place that is gonna go and the way it’s gonna present itself. You understand, Blockchain, you already know, completely different organizations have come to the desk with completely different concepts round using Blockchain. You understand, we have had many organizations which have put ahead proposals to, you already know, do redemptions for cryptocurrencies and so forth, and we have seen a number of organizations which have gone to market with crypto rewards. I’ve seen, from our members’ perspective, curiosity in that has waxed and waned relying on the worth of cryptocurrencies in the mean time, and other people’s urge for food for danger. So, you already know, I feel that is on the market, however I feel it is a bit bit extra tactical.
The place I am extra is the place the trade is gonna go on on leveraging Blockchain as a software, and from my standpoint, like, that begins to turn into actually attention-grabbing if you begin speaking about member-to-member factors switch or factors pooling or cross forex change, you already know, as methods of enabling a few of these varieties of mechanics and use instances which can be a bit bit extra difficult immediately. I might say the considering, like, it isn’t baked at this level. There’s heaps extra nonetheless to be realized on this house and the way it can greatest be utilized. And metaverse, I feel it is a massive, “We’re undecided at this second.” (52.22)
SS: You and all people else. Let me simply ask you one closing query within the jiffy we’ve got remaining right here. And we have coated plenty of territory on this. I’ve settled on this metaphor of a rocket ship heading out to discover model new worlds, courageous new worlds. However what do you see as primarily limitations to progress, the friction that you just may face in attaining a few of, you already know, the very visionary, bold issues you’ve set out for your self in what has been an enchanting dialog immediately? And what are the issues you must truly get proper to succeed right here on this journey that you just’re on?
MS: So, a number of issues we have to get proper. Scene has moved to Scene+ and moved from one aggressive house into a number of extra aggressive areas, and for us to achieve success in delivering the promise that we have to ship in these areas, we’d like to have the ability to ship world-class capabilities. And that encompasses analytics, it encompasses knowledge science, it encompasses our skill to maximise our stage of perception out of member conduct, after which with the ability to carry that to life throughout what’s a really difficult ecosystem in a means that’s logical and constant. And so, there is a great quantity of functionality to be, you already know, enhanced and nonetheless to be constructed to be sure that we will ship towards that imaginative and prescient. You understand, we’re on a journey proper now. We have been in building for the final two and a half years. We’ll proceed to be in building as we, you already know, make sure that we’re nicely positioned to ship, you already know, the size and the complexity to attain the outcomes.
When it comes to, you already know, limitations to progress, proper now, we’re feeling like we have got an awesome path forward. The expansion with Sobeys has been extraordinary. You understand, we have introduced in, you already know, 150% extra members within the final two months than our greatest yr ever, and Scene has at all times been a program that has grown rapidly and with relative ease. So, you already know, this progress is unprecedented and awe-inspiring. And we’re not carried out with the rollout. So, you already know, we’re actually within the early weeks. After which, you already know, subsequent summer time we’re gonna be including Residence {Hardware} to the enterprise, you already know, with a thousand areas coast to coast to coast. And once they be part of this system, you already know, we can have a significant presence in communities of each dimension throughout the nation. So, you already know, these elements mixed with, you already know, like, a powerful start line and a powerful stage of engagement, we’re not feeling like there are actual limitations instantly forward of us, we simply have to be sure that we’re laying the observe out sufficiently forward of ourselves in order that we will preserve the pace and the momentum to attain it with out going off the rails.
SS: Nicely, then we have got a practice metaphor, a rocket ship metaphor, and a bridge metaphor all rolled into one dialog.
MS: All rolled into one.
SS: Yeah. This has been improbable dialog. I’ve realized rather a lot immediately, and simply great, and I wanna thanks very, very a lot for agreeing to be a visitor on the present immediately, and good luck. It is gonna be attention-grabbing watching you proceed within the rocket ship as you head out towards Jupiter or no matter your vacation spot could also be. So, thanks very a lot, Matthew. Actually recognize it.
MS: Thanks. Actually recognize the chance to hitch you.
That concludes my interview with Matthew Seagrim. As we realized, Canadians are factors professionals, utilizing loyalty rewards as a parallel nationwide forex, whether or not its Air Miles, PC Optimum, Canadian Tire Triangle, Scene+ or any variety of proprietary packages. The purpose of all these packages is to earn front-of-the pockets standing. However the place Scene has a definite benefit is its distinctive enterprise mannequin, designed to maximise the worth of this system for members versus worrying concerning the backside line. And that opens up every kind of latest prospects in a world the place model loyalty is extra fragile than ever.
You’ll find previous episodes of this podcast on CustomerFirstThinking.ca the place you’ll additionally discover articles, strategic frameworks, video and extra on the transformation of promoting.
In closing, a giant shout-out to my mates and colleagues Justin Ecock and Shak Rana for his or her contribution to creating this podcast occur. Till subsequent time, thanks for listening.